Motivational Speaker Philippines - Sean Si

All about Sean Si and his thoughts on entrepreneurship, public speaking and leadership

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What it Takes to be a Great Leader

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Sean: What are the other character traits that you think should be there in a leader or a CEO, founder, an entrepreneur, what are the best character traits for them to have?

Jason: I think one is being humble, right? Because the challenge is when you’re not humble, your ego takes over and that becomes a problem for everyone. Right? I think it’s the ability to be vulnerable and tell people you don’t have it all figured out and be okay with that. Right?

Because that, again it’s something that is rare that people don’t really understand how to do. I think that another part of it is, and especially in these days, it’s resilience, right? And it’s being resilient in our organization by being able to face setbacks and failures and get yourself and other people back on their feet again and do it in a positive way because that’s one of the traits. I think the other thing is looking at empathy, right?

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I also think it’s really being able to see the positive aspects in a storm and sharing it with people to keep people going forward. Especially when things are in a challenging place. Not to lie to them, but to be transparent, but you don’t have to be negative in that sense.

I think the other part is just listening, right? Listening and asking people and really just spending time doing that in an organization. Because a lot of times it’s like, super hard. Like I’ve had an example of that is. I did some leaders that always say, why have an open door?

Like anyone could come in and tell me something, whether it’s a virtual open door or a real one. And then I asked them the question, well, how many people are calling you up to actually take you up on that offer? And then you hear silence, right? So what I’ll have people do is start to actually virtually walk around or really walk around and start to ask people questions and get to know them and do different stuff.

And I’ll have them do a simple exercise, like. Do it for 15 or 20 minutes, three times a week for a month. And tell me what starts to happen. And then what they tell me after a month it’s Oh my gosh. People are starting to give me more feedback. I’m hearing more information. They’re happier. They’re smiling.

They’re more excited. And then I say, yeah, because you’re more engaged and you’re showing people that you care. And you’re showing people that you listen and think about the impact that’ll happen. If you do this for an entire year in your organization and how many people you can touch, no matter how big the company is, right.

It doesn’t only matter. It gets around. You’re doing this. So, again, that thing doesn’t matter whether they’re five people or 50,000 people, right? All of these things are the things a lot of people overlook, they’re thinking, Oh, you got to be super smart. You got to be a genius. You have to do all these things.

It actually really isn’t that they showed. I’ve shown tons of data, where they put all star teams of super smart people together, like doctors or any other type of people versus people that were A players and B players. But the A and B players got along really well. They almost always outperformed those people that were all stars.

I mean, the research data shows this and countless numbers of studies I’ve seen. Right. So you don’t have to be the smartest person in the room. It’s how you work with other people. And it’s the characteristics. A lot of times that you may not think would be at the top actually are the ones that matter the most and the ones that you think there are often, aren’t the ones that will really create the company and the business that you actually want to build.

How To Create Leverage For Your Business

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Do you employ leverage?

Oh, it’s a finance question. When you’re asking about leverage, there’s a lot of ways to look at it. There’s the negotiation method. So do I use leverage when I negotiate in business? Or you can look at it from a finance standpoint, which is, do I use that or options or futures, or do I have any leverage from the brokerage platform that I’m using, meaning, I kind of borrow from them and then I pay double afterwards? So double the win, but also double the loss.

In terms of finance, I don’t employ leverage because I’m not really that amazing as a trader. I think I suck as a trader to be honest, and I’m not that good as an investor. Marvin Germo is a brilliant trader and investor, and I learned a lot from him. But in terms of practice, you need to practice. If you don’t practice anything that even a master could teach you, you’re not going to really learn it, you’re not going to experience it and it’s not going to stick. So I guess in my case, I haven’t practiced that well. I haven’t had a lot of opportunities to use everything that I’ve learned from Marvin. So I don’t employ leverage because it’s too risky for me. I think I’m just going to lose money.

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In terms of negotiation, do I employ leverage? Yes, definitely. We have negotiation points and we have leverage points that we always use. I always say, during negotiation, you have to gather data about your negotiation partner. Take note. I say, negotiation partner, not your opponent, or you’re not trying to fight it out or slug it out. When you’re at the negotiating table, you’re a businessman. That’s why you are literally called “negosyante” in Filipino by business people.

When you negotiate, you are trying to get to a win-win solution. If it’s going to be a win-lose, I say better, no deal. Let’s just not make the deal if it will be a win-lose one. So it has to be a win-win situation. And I do employ leverage that way, either relationship leverage. I have done something for this person before, or I know the owner, that’s a big deal. Especially here in the Philippines where network is critical. Referrals, it’s very, very important.

What is the next big thing for e-commerce? Do you think after the pandemic, people will return to malls or e-commerce will change this behavior of Filipinos?

I think e-commerce is getting bigger and bigger. That’s what I think. I don’t think it’s going to stop, even if we’re back to normal, after the pandemic blows over. I think that we have already gotten into that lifestyle. It’s no longer a habit. A habit forms in 31 days. So it’s already a lifestyle because it’s already 10 months. That’s a lot more than 31 days that we’ve been buying e-commerce. That we’ve been having groceries delivered to our door steps. That we’ve been paying via bank transfer, Gcash, GrabPay, or credit card. So I think people are used to buying online.

If we’re going to the mall, I don’t think that we’re going to buy a lot there anymore. That’s what I think. I think malls have to be a lot more competitive in terms of their price point versus e-commerce because a lot of choices are available now in the e-commerce platforms. And a lot of people are also getting more stuff here from China, which improves selection and price.

So if ever that people are going to buy stuff from the mall, it should be something that is really not in the e-commerce platforms or it shouldn’t be something that’s super expensive in the e-commerce platforms. That’s what I think. But in terms of, are people still going to be buying through e-commerce platforms? Definitely. I don’t think it’s going to slow down. I think it’s going to be maintained or it’s going to curve up. That’s my opinion.

How to Develop Your Leadership Skills Through Challenges and Crises

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Sean: What do you think are the things that keep leaders and entrepreneurs from being their best self? What is keeping them from being successful?

Jason: I would say that the first thing is self; lack of self-awareness because the problem tends to be that the more successful you are, the less people will tell you the truth and that you will listen to them.

And that a lot of times your blind spots that you’re not aware of are the things that end up causing you the most problems. And pretty much I’ve found that universal typically historical patterns stem back from things that we’ve done as a child or learned. Right. And that’s how we play it forward.

The problem now is when you’re leading people, if you don’t listen to them and value them and hear them, they start to reject and avoid you and dislike you. And that causes a lot of problems. Well, when you give people negative feedback, they tend to not like that in a recoil because it’s a function in your brain about how we see the world. So when you show people a pattern, they’re much more receptive to it because then they know that it’s neither good, nor bad.

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It’s something that they’ve done because they learned it from something else that has just happened over time. And so a lot of that is really helping people understand their own beliefs, values, framework for seeing the world and showing them places that it’s really getting in their own way, because.

Like I said before, the other problem is the people around them. Like if you’re the CEO of a company who’s sitting down to tell you that you’re making a mistake and why, right. I mean, the only time you may be doing that is a board may be doing that, but that’s in a really conflict driven way.

They’re not usually giving you feedback in a positive way to be helpful. They’re giving you negative things, right? And the people that you’re managing, aren’t going to most likely, I mean, rarely come to your office and try to give you feedback and do that because they’re worried about losing their job or like some repercussions in their career.

So there’s not a lot of people that are telling you the truth and sharing with you information and feedback. And that really is the first place where people don’t really do that. I would say the other thing that happens is that people don’t invest in learning management and leadership skills, right?

I would say the third thing is really people don’t understand the value of teamwork and that it’s a, it is a company strategy to get people to work together.

And do it in a way that’s effective because all of the conflict and not getting along creates disruption, slows down processes, people miss deadlines right? And all these other things start to happen across like I think its teaching people and learning ourselves. How do you do great teamwork and how do you keep people, you know, collaborating?

So I tell everyone like, that’s how you can create and scale businesses way faster, way quicker with way less people and way more competitive. It’s about the team. And how do you get them to work and get the best out of them?

Raising a Fist Against God

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raising fist against God

The world is preparing itself for that time when putting man and man’s ideas, ideals, and overall good – whatever that ‘good’ may relatively look like to each individual – above God.

We are now filled with the ideas of different people in the world of how they think and believe the world and God should be. In this, they are playing God because they believe they have the best idea and version of God and that God should be what they think He ought to be.

We have seen different so-called “movements” – some as colorful as they can be, some not as public – try to defy and shape God and His Word to what they believe is right and true. 

The root problem is idolatry – the same problem since the beginning when Adam and Even chose their own desires and authority over God’s.

I have read a passage today that I do not understand. It is my 14th time to read through the Bible from Genesis to Revelations and it seems that some things in the Bible is new to me every time I read through it.

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9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
    to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
    and by your will they were created
    and have their being.”

– Revelations 4:9-11

I’m not certain what this means at all but it’s hard to imagine those twenty-four elders doing nothing but falling down in worship each and every time those living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to God. And it does say in the previous verse that those four creatures DO NOT SLEEP and that’s what they do all day!

Are we going to be like robotical heavenly beings with one purpose? Are we supposed to enjoy doing that all day? Are we going to have a will of our own still by then?

Otherworldly

These are questions that popped in my head while reading through this. But then I realized that these are things that are literally beyond me. Beyond my comprehension. Beyond my imagination. What use is it trying to imagine and reason and envisioning it with my finite, limited brain?

In the end, it does boil down to the amount of faith you have. Do you trust God with your life and future? Or do you not?

I’m glad I do – and because of that, I don’t need to have it ‘all figured out’. I imagine if I did not have faith, I would try to control and romanticize a better future in my mind than place my fate and destiny in God’s hands.

Sadly there are people – even people I personally know – who have given in to their imaginations and desires rather than to faith in God. And they have ended up raising their fist against God – much like to how Josef Stalin did so in his death bed.

“According to Svetlana (daughter of Josef Stalin), as Stalin lay dying, plagued with terrifying hallucinations, he suddenly sat halfway up in bed, clenched his fist toward the heavens once more, fell back upon his pillow, and was dead.”

Heavenly and Worldly Authority

I’m a business owner and I do lead people. I do know how it is to be IN AUTHORITY but I also know how it is to be UNDER AUTHORITY at the same time. When people do not submit to my authority, it makes for chaos, unwanted gossip, poor work output and generally a dystopian outlook for the person and the people involved.

However when people willingly place themselves under the authority of my leadership, things go swimmingly well to the point where our entire team snowballs into a seemingly unstoppable force. 

In all this, I do not forget that I am under God’s authority and I submit to all He has decreed in His Word such as paying our taxes right, submitting to government officials, paying our people right and sharing the gospel to everyone in the company.

People who refuse to be under God’s authority – who shake their fist against God – are generally on the way to a dystopian future with the rest of the world. Their idolatry of their own selves and their ideals and desires that they have put above God’s authority in their life will end up just the same as all the other idolatries that occurred through history.

The question is: Have you put yourself under God’s authority through faith? Or are you still holding on to those ideals, beliefs and a romanticized future of what you believe is to be the best future for yourself?

Good Debt vs Bad Debt: What is the Difference?

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When do you consider that it is a good debt? How do you manage it?

It is a good debt, if you are going to use the debt for assets, money-making assets. So one of the investments that we have is in the agriculture business. And there is a certain loan that we call crop loan. When you have a crop loan from the government, you have a certain amount of interest, sometimes it’s 6% and you pay it in two years time. So meaning, your 6% is per two years. Per year, strictly speaking, you’re interest per year is only 3%. But you have to pay it with the principal and interest, of course, after two years.

So if you’re able to pay it, it’s like you only had 3% interest. And that for me is fantastic if you’re going to use your capital, and that capital is not from a loan, meaning that your cash-on-hand is your capital. elsewhere. You’re going to use it to buy another business, start another business, or buy real estate and rent it out. And then use the bank’s money, meaning, your loan to finance your other business or your agriculture business, that for me is a good kind of debt.

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Or for example, same with real estate, if you’re going to borrow from the bank and the interest is much smaller than the amount of money or revenue that you’re going to get from the rent. For example, if you’re going to rent out the property, then it makes sense to loan it from the bank. That way, you lessen your risk because you’re not risking your own capital, if it’s all you have, or if it’s a very big amount of what you have, cash on hand, then better to borrow from the bank. That is my opinion. That is a good kind of debt.

A bad kind of debt is if you’re going to use the debt for a liability. Things that you want and not need – car, or house that you don’t need, house that you’re not going to live in and you just want it for rest. That for me in my opinion is a bad kind of debt. So anything that is not an asset, not a money making asset, and you take out a loaner or debt for that, I think that’s a bad kind of debt and you should get out of it as quickly as possible.

What is your strategy on getting out of bad debt?

First and foremost, don’t do it. Personally, I haven’t gotten into bad debt. I make sure that if I’m going to borrow from the bank for a, strictly speaking, not an asset, like for example, a vehicle that I want to purchase. I make sure that I have cash on hand to pay it and I won’t be having any disadvantages when I pay it cash. Meaning, I have excess cash and I could pay it outright, but I’d rather loan from the bank because it’s a good relationship with my bank manager and also, it helps with my credit. So that is strictly speaking, not a bad debt. But I did take a loan, so that is debt for something that’s not a money-making asset.

Getting out of bad debt, strategies, you have to negotiate with a debtor. You have to negotiate from the people or the bank that you ask money from. You have to have a debt payment plan or debt free payment plan, if you fail to pay the debt for the first time – but definitely you have to get out the debt as quickly as possible; there is no other way.

Company Culture and The Leader’s Common Road Block To Growth

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Sean: What did you notice about their company culture that made them win? Or those that made them lose and not succeed.

Jason: I think the difference was, and it’s funny, I was talking to one of my business partners in another business of mine about this today. And I think the difference is that a lot of people were focused on success and ego and money.

And that’s hard to build long-term success because there are people that feel left out and there’s a lot of ups and downs. And what I found in the other businesses, they were looking for more fulfillment and a higher purpose. Like we’re serving other people and we’re helping them. We’re on a noble mission.

This is bigger than the company itself or the money that we’re making. And it’s about the people and the relationships that you’re building here. And so success was a piece of it, but it wasn’t the sole mission. And they think that they understood that that was the requirement to get people enrolled in things like that, because you’re not going to get someone to work 60, 70, 80 hours.

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And operate at peak performance and give them their all, if you don’t feel like you’re doing something important and you’re making an impact, that’s outside of the dollars being generated. And they think that that was really the secret sauce in what they were able to do, that other people failed to see.

And they actually really believed it overall, where there were a lot of other people that did it because they wanted to be CEO of a company and make a lot of money. And they wanted to assure themselves that they made a lot of money, but they don’t really care if anyone else did. So they, people saw that.

And I think that ended up having short-term success. And then a lot of those businesses ended up failing. And I think the other part of it was, – Netflix is a great example, as they invested a lot in their people. They understood that creating an atmosphere of re – belonging connection inside of the company and really creating and focusing on the people was the core part of what they had to do.

To sustain the business for a long time. And I felt like a lot of other people gave it lip service, didn’t really believe in it or didn’t invest in it. And the people were actually not even second, but they were like last. And I think what ended up happening is that you’ll see a lot of businesses didn’t do well because people figured that out.

Right. And then they just job hop and they just left and you have a lot of turnover and there’s environments. And then people really aren’t working their best because they know. That they’re essentially just being used. Right. And no one is allowed to be a part of all of that. So I think that those were the main, like larger concepts that I saw people do, and I don’t think it really plays itself out any differently now.

And I don’t really think it matters the scale of your business, whether it’s a five person business or it’s a 50,000 people business. I think all those things stay true today and probably even more so. Especially being in the environment that we’re currently in and what looks like to be what we’re going to be facing probably for the next couple of years.

Should Businesses in the Philippines Go Digital?

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How do you envision the digital roadmap in the Philippines? What do you think of small and big companies that lack digital presence?

I think that a lot of companies right now are looking to go digital when they have the funds. Because right now a lot of them don’t have the funds for it, or are not prepared to fund their digital because it’s not really cheap. It’s not cheap to build a website, do the SEO right. It could be cheap, but if you do it cheap, you might have to do it again. Because you did it cheap the first time, you get penalized, you have a lot of wrong things, faulty and unorganized coding, bad website design, it’s your branding that will suffer. So you have all of these wrong things that can go on when you do it cheap.

So companies who are smart will do it right the first time and get the best providers that they can find. I think that that’s going to be the roadmap for the Philippines, that if the company has the capacity to do it, they have funds for it, the economy is recovering or is getting better, I think that they’re going to go digital, a lot of them. Because we know that the traffic is bad. Even way before the pandemic, we know the traffic is bad and it’s getting worse. And how that gets solved is, don’t waste your life on traffic, just order from e-commerce. And a lot of people right now are used to ordering on e-commerce, are used to ordering their groceries online where it’s normal for us. We do our meetings online, through Zoom. So we’re used to this now, even post pandemic, we’re still going to be used to a lot of these things. And so going digital is one of the best things that a company can do. One of the wisest things that companies can do.

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Small and big companies that lack digital presence, I think that they’re missing out a lot. They’re leaving money on the table. You’re wasting the money you could have earned if you don’t go digital, because honestly what’s the first thing you pick up in the morning? I don’t think it is your coffee mug. I don’t think it’s your toothbrush. I don’t think people brush their teeth first thing in the morning. I think people check their smartphone, whether they say, “No Sean, I just turned off the alarm.” Sure, but you probably also check some notifications there, whether it’s Facebook or email, whatever. Right?

So if the first thing you pick up is your smartphone and the last thing you put down is also your smartphone, what does that tell you about the world today? What does that tell you about human behavior? What does that tell you about your business not being on digital? That’s something very important that you have to think about.

I watched this documentary on Netflix, The Social Dilemma, and one of the venture capitalists there says, “it’s no longer a question of whether you pick up your phone or not. The question is whether you do it before you pee or while you’re peeing in the morning.” So I find that funny, but it’s the truth, right?
 

Starting a Business: How This Silicon Valley Employee Built a Business in 6 Months

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Sean: From going into Silicon Valley and maybe you realize some things while you’re there. I want to know how that led to you deciding, okay, I’m going to be a coach and I’m going to be an executive coach, and this is what I’m going to be doing.

Jason: Yeah. I think it was over time. I realized the channel and it was. Is that it was really hard to find a culture and a team that I both loved and was successful. And it was really hard to do that. And so I went to some startups and they weren’t that successful. And then one of them went public and did well, but it was a challenge because I had to work remotely and it just felt pretty distant in the organization overall.

And then I ended up going to HP because I thought, well, I’d never worked inside of a super large company like that before. And I thought, well, that might be interesting. And then I found it was a lot of politics. And a lot of the other challenges that were really hard to ultimately manage. And I was like, I’m not, I didn’t really enjoy it.

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And so I started to think to myself, like, okay, I love working with people and I love helping them. And I’m really good at that part of my job. Why, why couldn’t I do this on my own? Right. And so I decided to look at it in terms of like, well, where would I start? And I was really good on the relationship side.

So I actually started something that I don’t really do now, which is just helping people build relationships and like their social lives. I just thought, well, I have a full-time job. Why don’t I throw out a way to build relationships and help people? And if I could do that and I could sell that. I then know I can move and do it in a business setting.

And then I would just sort of iterate it and then go all in. So I found someone else who had a business, who I had met and I was like, well, if I develop all this stuff and give it to you, right. You’ll use our network and everything else. And we’ll just split everything 50-50. And I thought, well, that’s great.

Because then my startup costs are zero. Right. And I could see how this could play out and that’s what I did. And then I tried that and the person really didn’t want to go in the direction I wanted to. And then I started to network with people that were successful business people. And it was like, well, why don’t I try this out?

And get some people that were really high level and that were having some really big problems and see in six months how much I could help them and move the needle for them. And that would be the judge for myself. If I like, this is something I want to do. And they went exceptionally well. And then I thought to myself, okay, well, why wouldn’t I want to try doing this full-time.?

And so it just started to evolve from there.

An Entrepreneur’s Guide To Keeping Employees Happy

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How do you reward your employees? Do you give bonuses?

Reward? We have perks. So we have what we call patches. We award them with patches, it’s like in the military. To name a few military patches, Private, Sergeant, Three Star General, Lieutenant, so we have those kinds of things that we stick to their jackets. Of course, we’re the ones who produced the jackets for them. This was way back when we were in the office. Now we don’t hold office anymore, we are working from home. So we’re still figuring out how we’re going to do that. And per patch, we have a perk. So we give them a perk, could be like, you have extra minutes for breaks, something like that. Right? So this is just an example, or you get one paid vacation leave, something like that.

So those are perks. Those are rewards. But you know, what’s important there? It’s not really the perks. It’s not really giving the jacket. It’s not even the patches. What’s important is you recognize them for their effort. We give them patches when they practice the core values. So we have six core values. We have grit, respect for work, and we have unity, challenger experimentation, and then clarity. If they keep on practicing any of these and we see that they practice it and the votes are in their favor because we do vote, the leadership team votes, who is deserving of the batch. Then we give them the patch. And they get recognized in front of the entire team. So that’s in front of 50 people.

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There is a saying that the last time a person gets applauded is usually during their graduation day. I was quite sad when I heard that, because when you think about it, it’s quite true. The last time a person got applauded is during their graduation day, it’s quite sad. So we tried to figure out how we can fix that in SEO Hacker. We have our clap sessions. We really applaud people. We really recognize them. I’m sure other companies do it in some other way, like employee of the month or employee of the week. I don’t know if you have ‘employee of the day’, but I’m sure other companies do it in some other way.

But we’re very intentional in doing this. Because for us, yes you can give bonuses. Yes you can give monetary rewards. Yes you can compete in the salary market. But we don’t want to compete that way. Because the one thing that’s hollow in the hearts of a lot of people now, is a team that really cares about them and a team that really appreciates them. That is what’s lacking, it’s not just about the money, so we do it that way at SEO Hacker.

Business Networking Done Right for More Opportunities

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Sean: Now to know that they’re not worried about coming to you and you’re doing the podcast and getting any more business in, I actually want to stem from that question. You’re doing this podcast entitled Business Leadership Podcast.

And it looks like you’re volunteering a lot of your time at Startup Canada as well, which seems to be like a big organization there. I’m not sure, but you could talk a little bit more about that so that we would all understand what it is? 5:00 PM is your family time. And yet you have a lot of time for these things.

Why are you doing all these? Why are you volunteering to help out? Because it’s, it didn’t start out as. Oh, I’m going to get more networks. If I do the podcast. Oh, I’m going to get more network If I help out at Startup Canada, I wonder, like, what was the mission-purpose, the calling that drove you to volunteer your time, helping out other entrepreneurs, teaching leadership, speaking in public, helping out in Startup Canada?

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Edwin: So startup Canada.

Now I’m, I’m more off it now than I was before. Originally started in Canada. I think I got involved with the organization. I think about the same time I launched Slingshot. Like I told you, when I became an entrepreneur, there was no startup ecosystem in the mid 2000s. So I was just that entrepreneur that would go and make sales and hustle.

And don’t know, never use this digital stuff. Like I was a little late when it started learning all that stuff, you know, versus like yourself in 2010, you’re doing SEO already. It was a little more proactive in the sense that, okay, we, you launched this and this ecosystem is starting to grow and learn. I mean, grow in terms of support and helping each other. And this organization, Startup Canada was just launched. And I met the co-founder at the time and I’m like, oh, how could I get involved? Because I understood. And what I was learning was, you could go to all these events or you can be part of an organization that runs all these events and become that way.

So that was sort of my way of getting – creating a network and understanding how being part of these networking organizations – not networking organization, but these – big massive ecosystems across Canada provided opportunities like, I ran one of their digital programs, which was startup chats, which was a Twitter chat.

I ran it for three years and I mean, I wrote an article like hitting 2 billion, like impact and doing all that type of stuff. So it allowed people to learn about me and grow. It looks like an organic hack, but my reason and my purpose for that was to build my word of mouth and my network and do that type of stuff.

But what I found Sean was that as I got to know more entrepreneurs and understand their journey and their struggle. Because I was part of startup Canada, I was able to provide insight or help or guide them and that’s rewarding. I think you’re getting this from your podcast. It’s rewarding to know that you helped someone, you made a difference. And I think that’s where this purpose comes from. You’re like, Oh, I don’t want to, I could, this just feels good. I mean, making money feels great, of course, but I mean, making an impact on someone’s life that’s unforgettable. I think that really moved me and that really got me towards the podcast eventually, but that was the main reason why I stayed in it.

And I was lucky and blessed to be in a situation where I was in a leadership role or scene and volunteering. I was able to – not negotiate, but really not spend so much time on this Startup Canada stuff. It was literally like a kid when you need to, just need to run this twice a week on Twitter.

Like for one hour on Wednesdays and one hour on Fridays, like that was it. And then they would have these big galas, Sean, and I’d go to these galas and meet everyone and meet, you know, very wealthy or very successful entrepreneurs. So it was, it was really cool.

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